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Opinions/Politics

Right to die.

Some people like to talk politics, others don't. I've made a separate forum so you can post if you want or ignore it if you don't. Hope this is an acceptable compromise.

Right to die.

Postby dave dee » Thu 16 Aug 2012 14:05 GMT

As Tony Nicklinson loses his high court appeal on his right to die than suffer for decades from locked in syndrome one thing springs to my mind. "They shoot horses don't they ?" Life is a bitch sometimes.
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Postby gozomark » Thu 16 Aug 2012 14:41 GMT

Its not the courts fault, but parliaments. Rigorous safeguards would be needed, but what right has society got to deny an individual the option of assisted suicide.
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Postby gozomark » Fri 17 Aug 2012 07:41 GMT

I can recommend a Spanish film called "The Sea Inside"

www.imdb.com/title/tt0369702

"The real-life story of Spaniard Ramon Sampedro, who fought a 30 year campaign in favor of euthanasia and his own right to die."

This was shown by the Gozo Film Club a year ago - very moving, and sometimes funny film
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Postby Dave » Fri 17 Aug 2012 12:27 GMT

I've shifted this to the Ops/Pol board as we've had discussions on related subjects here in the past and it seemed to make sense to keep them all in the same place. :-)

It surprised me to discover that there are some very vocal disabled groups against the right to assisted suicide. The thrust of their argument seems to be a "slippery slope" one - any legislation to permit assisted suicide (or "voluntary euthanasia", as they insist on calling it) opens up the possibility of involuntary euthanasia, or at the very least euthanasia under duress from relatives. It also undermines the argument that individuals don't have disabilities, society disables individuals through its failure to accommodate people of all ranges of physical and mental ability.

It's an interesting point of view, though it doesn't say very much for their view of the relatives of disabled people. But for me they rather undermine their argument by using so much emotive language, including references to the Nazis' forcible euthanasia programme introduced in 1939. And the fact that unpleasant consequences may be possible if legislation isn't drawn up carefully enough is a good reason to legislate carefully, but is no reason not to legislate at all.
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Postby Graeme » Fri 17 Aug 2012 14:06 GMT

Working in health care for the past 30+ years I can tell you this is a highly charged emotive subject. It crops up for us on a regular basis and invariably it is the person suffering who wants the option to be able to end their life. A fair bit seems to hinge on the persons belief system and a lot depends on the illness they have (a painful end as opposed to just slipping away), it certainly is a difficult subject.
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Postby Dave » Fri 17 Aug 2012 14:20 GMT

Graeme wrote:A fair bit seems to hinge on the persons belief system

That goes for the people engaging in the debate too, I'm afraid, even if they personally don't face the future of a slow, painful death. I have to admit my first thought when hearing about these anti-assisted suicide groups was: "What religious axe do they have to grind?" In the interest of probity, I also have to admit I didn't find one, although I didn't dig very deeply and I'm aware that with assisted suicide - as with abortion - religious groups are often careful to cover up their affiliations.
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Postby gozomark » Fri 17 Aug 2012 15:41 GMT

As some of you know, my mum died recently. She wanted to die a few days before it actually happened as she felt she had no quality of life (she was in a lot of pain which was controlled by opiates, but meant she was spaced out most of the time). The doctors and nurses (who were great) couldn't allow her to fulfill her wishes. As my uncle said to me "if she was a dog, someone would be prosecuted for cruelty for not euthanising her"
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Postby Graeme » Fri 17 Aug 2012 22:03 GMT

It's odd how malleable belief systems can be as well, one of the hardest deaths I've seen was a minister who died of lung cancer. As the end neared he was terrified and little could help him except a heavy supply of medication.
One would have thought being a man of the cloth he'd have been happy to be on his way to see his boss. :?
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Postby gozomark » Fri 17 Aug 2012 22:09 GMT

Graeme wrote:It's odd how malleable belief systems can be as well, one of the hardest deaths I've seen was a minister who died of lung cancer. As the end neared he was terrified and little could help him except a heavy supply of medication.
One would have thought being a man of the cloth he'd have been happy to be on his way to see his boss. :?


perhaps he'd been a very naughty boy
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Postby Graeme » Sat 18 Aug 2012 03:34 GMT

If smoking is a sin then he would have been a heavy sinner, not sure he was up to much for the last couple of years before the Crab got him. He did not go gently into that good night!
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Postby gozomark » Wed 22 Aug 2012 11:29 GMT

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 72884.html

Locked-in syndrome sufferer Tony Nicklinson dies less than a week after losing legal challenge for the right to end his life
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Postby Dave » Wed 22 Aug 2012 17:34 GMT

Of course, if voluntary assisted suicide isn't legal, then you get the same kind of situation as used to happen with abortions before they were illegal - done with a nod and a wink. And how much legal safeguard do you have then?

That seems to me quite a good reason to have legislation, so that the whole process can be properly regulated and not carried out by connivance. The opponents of right-to-die legislation may actually be perpetuating the state of affairs they profess to be opposed to.

I'd have linked to the Monty Python and the Holy Grail "Bring out your dead" bit, but it seems a bit redundant. You know what I mean.
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Postby gozomark » Wed 22 Aug 2012 17:58 GMT

Some articles have said he starved himself to death
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Postby Dave » Thu 23 Aug 2012 00:12 GMT

Yes. Not a nice way to go.
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Postby dave dee » Thu 23 Aug 2012 17:12 GMT

To starve himself to death would have had to be assisted surely, for whatever reason he wanted to die so got to be happy for him, hope it's a relief for his family too.
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