Britain - The Best Country In The World

[Trev]

I wonder at what point Britain will become "foreign" even within itself.

Food for thought...........

English is the second language among children in 1,300 British schools

[Buddyboy]

Thanks Trev. It's an interesting article which begs the question: Is the country that produced us all already lost beyond salvation? Even the most positive, liberal thinkers would surely still acknowledge the swamping of a culture that has given so much to the world. Will the country's transition beyond a certain point be a peaceful one or one marked with strife and rebellion?

[Savannah_Alan]

The word that comes to mind is denial.

I don't agree. I see what they were saying to you as eminently sensible. Extolling the virtues of your adoptive country by reference to the number of cars you own, the size of your house, or the size or the local supermarket would cause two words to come to my mind: materialistic and shallow.

I leave tomorrow to spend a fortnight in that hateful place from whence we came. I'll try to make the best of it .

[Dave]

Even the most positive, liberal thinkers would surely still acknowledge the swamping of a culture that has given so much to the world.

...and received so much from it too. British culture is so vibrant largely because it's been so open to influences from abroad, from the Huguenots in the late 16th century onwards.

Yes, it's a problem that needs to be addressed. But even if English is the second language at these schools, it's still the language the kids are going to have to learn if they're going to function effectively in society. And we're not talking about a single external influence swamping British culture (whatever that may be - even within each of the four home countries there isn't a single monolithic culture, let alone between them).

Enoch Powell was expressing similar fears back in 1968 - before the influx of Asian families from Idi Amin's Uganda. But the riots of the 1980s were more about unemployment and social deprivation than anything else.

Typical Mail "fear and loathing" article, in my view. This said it all for me:

The borough also contains the second highest percentage of Muslims.

Would the figure still have been newsworthy if the religion had been Judaism? Or Seventh Day Adventism?

Yes, Britain will change as a result of immigration. As it has done time and again in the past. Let's just get on and deal with it, for goodness' sake.

[Keith 78]

The England I left in 1963 no longer exists and neither does the Ottawa I arrived in in 1963.
I have only made 3 visits back since that date the last in 1982. My only reason for the trips were to see my mother.

We chose to spend our limited travel cash on seeing the rest of the world.

Best country, Canada of course.

[spinola]

Buddyboy, in answer to your question, in a very FEW years, if the present socialist government we have are still in power (heaven help us), we will have meekly surrendered everything to the EU !!

The UK has changed, and is changing every day, take the time to spend time in most of our cities / towns, talk to the people, do not listen to politicians / statiticians / politically correct fools. Then you will get a true picture of the real UK.

[Dave]

we will have meekly surrendered everything to the EU !!

No more than the other 26 members will have done, and (if past form's anything to go by) probably a good deal less. The EU is about compromise among its members where compromise is agreed to be useful.

It's also about taking decisions at the level of government closest to the people they're going to affect, under the principle of subsidiarity. So decisions that can be taken at local level should be taken by local councils; decisions at national level by national governments; and only the decisions that are needed to ensure a level playing field across the 27 member states are taken in Brussels - where the UK has at least as powerful a voice as any of the others.

If you're really worried about the centralisation of power, then a better target might have been the Thatcher government's determination to remove power from the democratically elected local councils and concentrate it in Whitehall.

As for "Socialists" being willing to "surrender everything", the first renegotiation of the UK's membership terms was carried out by the Wilson government in 1974, which was a damn sight more socialist than the present crowd. And you'd be hard pushed to find a more implacable opponent of the EU in the Tories' ranks than Tony Benn.

Anyway, what's the alternative to the EU?

- Go it alone? Too damaging to the economy. We no longer have a significant manufacturing base, thanks to Thatcherism.
- Commonwealth preference? The Commonwealth has moved on. It makes far more sense to most of them to enter local trading arrangements.
- Revert to EFTA and tag along in the European Economic Area? We'd have far less influence over the EU decision-making process, but still be bound by its decisions - the Norwegians already complain about government by "fax from Brussels".
- NAFTA? Well, at least it's a significant trading bloc in terms of size. But I can't see us having more influence in Washington - even if we ganged up with the Canadians and Mexicans - than we do in Brussels, where we're often able to get a significant number of other member states on our side.

The UK isn't the biggest power in the world any more, and hasn't been for nearly a century. We're moderately influential on the world stage, but no more so than France or Germany, and probably less so than Japan and China. We're one of the major players in Europe - and could perform that role much more effectively if only we'd embrace it properly, instead of all this nostalgic foot-dragging which keeps us playing catch-up every time.

[spinola]

Thanks for the lecture Dave, an awful lot of words saying very little (you are a socialist then ) but in all your posting you never once admitted the fact that as a Nation we will soon no longer be able to make decisions that affect US !

The EU decision makers are Politically Correct People, and look at the mess OUR own PCP have made of our everyday life in the UK

Would we survive without being a member of the EU, of course we would. Other Countries seem to manage okay 8)

[Dave]

Thanks for the lecture Dave, an awful lot of words saying very little (you are a socialist then )

Sticks and stones, eh? As a matter of fact, I'm not.

but in all your posting you never once admitted the fact that as a Nation we will soon no longer be able to make decisions that affect US !

Probably because it's not true. (You're not a Daily Mail reader, are you?)

The EU decision makers are Politically Correct People, and look at the mess OUR own PCP have made of our everyday life in the UK

If you want to look at the mess that's been made of everyday life in the UK, try the people who said it was OK to fill your boots by any means available. "There is no such thing as society," remember?

Would we survive without being a member of the EU, of course we would. Other Countries seem to manage okay 8)

I don't doubt we'd survive, but would we prosper?

Besides, which countries genuinely go it alone these days? Within Europe, even the Swiss are harmonising with EU legislation. Most other countries worldwide are either already inside trading blocs, negotiating entry or trying to set them up.

[spinola]

Sticks and stones, eh? As a matter of fact, I'm not.

C'mon Dave you are in denial

Probably because it's not true. (You're not a Daily Mail reader, are you?)

Surely that would be better than being a Sun reader ( or Morning Star, perhaps ? lol ) like yourself

I don't doubt we'd survive, but would we prosper?

Are we prospering now ??? The biggest deficit since taking over from the tories

[Savannah_Alan]

Hey, Spinola. You're not American are you? They love to use the word "socialist" over and again like it's a swear word.

Most of them have no clue what it actually means.

[spinola]

Of course I do Grrrr

It means people who like to socialise with like minded people does it not ???

[Kay]

Very funny, Spinola .

You seem to think it's clever and/or funny to try to disrupt conversations with your inane and banal comments. I very much doubt if anyone else finds your comments as funny as you do.

It's not a case of agreeing or not - that's no problem. It's about having the ability to discuss things without the crap that you come out with.

[spinola]

kay, I have to admit to occasionally talking crap, like many others do at times, BUT that is better than being a self important, opinionated, humourless, sour puss like you !!

Do you not state that personal attacks are not tolerated on this Forum???

But as usual you make up the rules as you go along, and are too often obnoxious to other well intended enquirers

You do not need to terminate my membership, I am happy to do that myself.

[Dave]

Do you not state that personal attacks are not tolerated on this Forum???

Indeed we do. We shouldn't have tolerated your earlier ones.

As it is, I doubt whether our members will miss your particular brand of humour. You'd be better off finding another forum where the moderators are willing to put up with trolls.